Thursday, February 18, 2010

Quem Deus vult perdere prius dementat

The following was copied this morning from an "Egalitarian Christian" website:

I'm going to say here, in this place of safety, what I'm very much wanting to say elsewhere but so far haven't had the courage:

Subjugation/subordination of women is morally wrong. This means that if the Bible actually promoted the same, the Bible would be morally wrong. If the God revealed in the Bible actually promoted this, He would not be God-- it would be a false god, because it would be an immoral god. The real, true God would still be out there somewhere, and I would still go seeking Him-- but I cannot worship a god who is immoral.

In effect, this renders all of the endless wrangling over whether the Bible does or doesn't say, "women are born to be subordinate," moot. If someone could prove to me that the Bible said that, this would be proof that it was not the book that revealed the true God. I would not bow to the immoral practice of female subordination, just because the Bible said it

True worship of God is not "follow the Bible, whether it's true or false, good or evil." True worship of God is to seek the true and good, and thereby to seek the true God.

Fortunately, as I've read the Bible I've seen it to reveal a God who designed and promotes the equality of all peoples, races, nations-- and both sexes. I've seen in Jesus a Man who raised women up, contrary to the practices of His day. I've become convinced that He is the perfect revelation of the true God, and the Bible is the Story of His revelation.

So, complementarians-- don't seek to prove to me that the Bible really teaches subordination of women. Not unless you're trying to turn me away from being a Christian.


Kevin Jones said...

"If someone could prove to me that the Bible said that, this would be proof that it was not the book that revealed the true God."

So this is where total anti-subordination will get you.

This kind of comment box drama is a form of petty blackmail to try to stop people from arguing against your position. I haven't used that tactic since my teens.

Jane said...

That's one of those "I don't know which part to correct first" kind of things. She's probably wrong about what subordination is (clued in by her referring to it as "subjugation,") she's wrong that it's morally wrong both because she's wrong about what it is and because she's wrong that what it ACTUALLY is, is morally wrong, and she's wrong that the way to know God is to figure out what you like and then insist that God must be like that. And of course at the deepest level, she's wrong to stake submission to God on anything other than, well, submission to God.

But how would you begin to address such a linguine plate of wrongness, even if you wanted to?

Kamilla said...


I honestly don't know whether to apply Proverbs 26:4 or 5 in these cases.

Kevin's right about it being a juvenile tactic so you'd have to be careful about getting ensnared in it. The problem with religious feminism is that it is so emotionally charged and wrapped up in feelings of self worth that you're never going to get very far if you try to argue logically and attack, say, this correspondent's contention that she can have certain knowledge of what is morally right or morally wrong *outside* of God's revelation.

I highlighted this particular post because it shows so very clearly the madness one descends into if one embraces religious feminism - it sets you up as "god" over Scripture, over truth, over goodness, etc.

I think you have to start where Dale O'Leary starts - with repentance. Our religious feminist friends are *never* going to hear the truth, never accept and embrace it until they first repent. Feminism flourishes in the bitter soil of envy and resentment and the religious feminist will never hear what we have to say unless they first repent and forgive.


Catherine said...

Yes..what you said about repentance and forgiveness. Someone who says, essentially I will not believe in or submit to a God with whom I don't agree or whose views I don't understand is worshiping herself as God. We certainly may have to struggle with scripture but to say we are above it will lead to madness and all kinds of horror.
Thanks for posting this Kamilla.