Saturday, May 14, 2011

Denver Seminary, wrap-up (updated)

I find that there is really not much more to say at this point - I just want to let those of you following things know what has happened.

I had a meeting with the seminary's Vice President for Advancement (at his request) this week to air my concerns.  He told me that one of the things they are doing is auditing/reviewing all of their communications, including the website.  And while he may have had some concerns about the Vaun Swanson video, they weren't going to pull it (if at all) until the process was completed.  Since the video was posted on the seminary's website before he joined the administration, he could not tell me what (or indeed, if any) vetting had been done before posting it.

At his invitation, I attended the alumni reception this morning as well as the luncheon (I had already signed up for the latter).  Though I had the chance to speak with Mark Young, the seminary's president, for a few moments, I did not bring up my concerns -- it simply wasn't a good setting for it.  However, in God's providence, I was able to convey my concerns to someone at the seminary who was disturbed by what I had to tell him about the content of the video as well as some of the practices sponsored by Pomegranate Place.  I believe he will look into matters himself and will then act on what he finds.

I am thankful for all your prayers and that my role in this matter seems to be at an end.

Update:  As it turns out, there seems to be more to say than I had thought.  First, I have turned the comment feature back on for this post (at least for the time being). 

In tracking down some unusual blog traffic, I ran across this from Vaun Swanson on the Jesus Creed blog:

As part of a doctoral thesis project, I surveyed women who had graduated from a major evangelical seminary between 1996 and 2006. The percentage of female graduates finding appropriate ministry positions following graduation was shockingly low. In all, only thirteen percent of the women responding to the survey said they were working full-time in a ministry position, either within a church or a Christian organization in which they used their gifts and training and could unqualifiedly support themselves financially. (emphasis in the original)
Note:  The seminary in question was Denver Seminary and as a graduate in those years, I received the survey which I completed and returned.

Which is a frankly false characterization of the situation in that it assumes 100% of female graduates intended to seek "appropriate ministry positions" in which they "could unqualifiedly support themselves financially".  I know yours truly had no intention of doing so because I was already in a profession which both paid well (at full time, I would have been earning twice as much as an average local full time associate pastor), and afforded me the sort of flexibility I desired.  As to working full time in ministry - well, there we see the narrowness of the feminist vision.  Whether you would consider it full time or not, I have more ministry on my plate right now than I ever dreamed I would.


Vaun Swanson said...

I am sorry that you have not responded to my invitation to visit Pomegranate Place, Kamilla. I'm beginning to wonder if the bravelass is really so brave.

Kamilla said...


You're a lying snake - and your games won't work here.

As I told you, all corrrespondence, aside from details of meetings, was subject to publication. So here, for the benefit of my readers is your email to me:

"I would like to invite you to have tea with me at Pomegranate Place. Please forgive me for extending this invitation on your blog. I realize now that that was inappropriate. I honestly don't know what has been going on in your life for the past 10 years or so since we knew each other at Denver Seminary and would like to hear more about your journey. I gather that you have changed some of your views and beliefs since we last talked. I don't know what your schedule is like. I am moving this weekend, but if you would please send me a couple dates and times that might work for you after [date given removed] we can get something on the calendar. The address for Pomegranate Place is 750 Clarkson Street, Denver 80218."

And here is my response to you:

"Don't be bothered about extending the invitation in public, I just wanted to be direct about certain things which is why I responded in that manner. That said, I will decline your invitation to tea at Pomegranate Place. If you would still like to meet, however, I can be found at [name removed] Coffee House a couple of afternoons a week. If you are free [dates removed] I will make sure I am there whichever day you can meet."

So, as you see, I have responded. I declined your invitation for the same reason I rarely visit Boulder - I find places steeped in certain forms of spiritual darkness to be oppressive. I offered an alternative meeting site and place.

And it is you who did not respond to that reply. Instead, you have tried to intimidate by responding falsely and in public. My bravery is not in question here and I rest in the sure knowledge that my friends would agree.

Alice C. Linsley said...

Bravo, Kamillia.

May Christ continue to sustain you in your journey. When all is said and done, our journeys are His business alone.

Caedmon said...

Bad form, Vaun.

BTW, any word yet re: which "local cathedral" the Rev. Michanda (Sarah) Lindsey serves as a "priest"?

vaun Swanson said...

I honestly did not receive your response, Kamilla. I would have responded if i had. I can understand your reluctance to meet with me. The invitation remains open if you ever decide you would like to meet with me or visit Pomegranate Place. Michanda has indicated her interest in meeting with you as well. I echo Alice Linsley's comment.

Anonymous said...

You know, Kamilla, I can't remember reading ANYTHING you write that is not malicious and negative. "You're a lying snake"? Sheesh! You are so full of anger and bitterness. I feel very sorry for you and believe you are: a) not demonstrating Christian spirit by being so unpleasant and judgmental, and b) are psychologically damaged. I'm sorry your life must be miserable, but why drag others down with you? I hope you get help before you hurt any more people! Remember: we become what we hate. Please try to stop hating.

Anonymous said...

RE: "I can understand your reluctance to meet with me."

How "understanding" -- but I don't see any reluctance to "meet with" Vaun Swanson. In fact, Kamilla offered an alternative location to meet with Vaun.

So Kamilla might just as well respond to Vaun with "Vaun, I understand your reluctance to meet with me."

But I doubt that Kamilla would do such a thing . . . since she doesn't need to engage in rhetorical posturing like that.

On another note . . . Kamilla, here's my theory about Michanda Lindsey. My bet is that she got priested in some sort of niche denomination [Unitarian?], then served as a "priest" at St. John's Cathedral, probably on a volunteer basis. Believe me, they'd let anybody serve there.


Alice C. Linsley said...


I was interested to read the follow up on this and the comments. Words can hurt and especially words that are posted online for the world to read. The most painful of all is the truth about ourselves. Rarely do we read that at blogs, however. These are not people who really know us.